Everyone wants to get into the HBS. Is it really as good as everyone wants to believe it is? It can’t be the end all be all, can it?

I’d like to first say that I loved my time at HBS – I learned a ton, had a lot of fun, and was surprised and impressed on what a great group of people they admit here. That being said, it is not the “end all be all” – no school is. As a veteran, I would say that the advantage you get from having a particular school pedigree is small to non-existent: veterans will get great job opportunities from any top MBA program, and I truly believe that no significant hiring advantage exists at a school with 900 classmates like Harvard.

To be completely candid, my classmates who came here with significant business experience viewed their time here as more personally and socially transformational, something older veterans are likely to scoff at. What they did not view the time at HBS as was a period of deep intellectual development, but rather a bit of a “finishing school” for things they largely knew. Some classes are very powerful, some teachers are simply astounding, but accounting is accounting, and learning finance via the case method can be a rough road.

I am very, very satisfied with my experience at HBS, but I truly do believe that I am not significantly better off than if I attended another school. I imagine this network appreciates with age, but at the end of the day, the time here was fun and enjoyable, not a life-changing “boot camp” experience.

Branch: Navy
MBA: HBS (Harvard)
Year: 2012
Industry: Consulting

What is the biggest difference in learning experience between business school and law school?

In business school, you traditionally fall into two categories: “Quants” and “Poets” and I was most definitely the latter.  During my first year of business school, I struggled trying to comprehend and understand key concepts in classes like Finance, Statistics, and Economics.  After graduating and receiving my MBA, I decided to attend law school and I thought after 2 years of working to understand the “Quant”, I would easily fit back into the “Poet” culture.  Yet I was shocked to realize how much harder law school was for me.

In essence, the MBA is like the “fleet”.  Even in the most quantitative classes, there was an element of creativity and innovation.  I was expected to come up with decisions with the information I had and stand by them.  If you lacked a skill set, classmates acted like a “fire team” to fill the void.  Everything was done with team work and people could rely on each other.

In contrast, law school is like “boot camp”. The average age of the students here is around 23 (as opposed to the average age of 26 for the MBA) and the mentality of the students is much different.  Unlike MBA students who are attending school with years of experience (business or otherwise), for law students, it’s their time to create the building blocks and foundation of their future law career based on the rigidity of law. Thus the learning method at law school revolves around memorization and the ability to regurgitate the information you’ve consumed at command, rather than the ability to be creative or innovative.

Although I don’t regret attending law school, the experience, especially after receiving my MBA, was quite a shock to the system.

Branch: USMC
MBA: Eller (University of Arizona)
Year: 2011
Industry: Law School (Liberty University)

What single resource was the most useful for you during your MBA application process

The best single resource for me during the application process was my communication with veterans who were students at the schools to which I was applying.  Initially I cast a wider net and lots of input helped me narrow down the list of business schools to which I would apply.  Once I had my last of schools I went through the process relatively methodically, progressing through my GMAT, resume, essays, and interviews.

For the GMAT I used the books with better recommendations and consulted beattheGMAT.com for general tips and when I had a specific problem question that the books could not explain adequately.  When I completed the GMAT and scored high enough to make it worthwhile to continue the process (by my judgment which was mostly guided by conversations with veteran students) I turned again the some of the veterans MBA students I had previously spoken with.  I sent my resume to people at every school I applied to and they helped me refine it and adapt it to each schools specific format.

If I had not talked to these individuals I would have had no idea each school had a specific format for resumes (I have no idea if this counts for anything in the admissions office) and I know for a fact my resume would have been a lot weaker.  The part with which they helped the most was translating my experience into words that a civilian admissions officer can understand; this is critical in and of itself but also because it helps you get ready for doing this live during an interview.

After I felt like I had a strong concise resume I wrote my essays and then passed these off to veteran MBA students and some other trusted critics.  After I submitted the entire application I received invitations for interviews with a few schools.  Since I was in Afghanistan at the time I did all of them on Skype and satellite phone.  Before doing these I communicated with veteran students at each school to get their take on the interview and likely format and questions.  This advice was invaluable and would probably have been even more helpful had I interviewed in person.  To conclude, the most valuable resource for me during the application process was by far the veteran MBA students I talked to; most are willing to help and have excellent advice.

Branch: Army
MBA: Darden (University of Virginia)
Year: 2013
Industry: Investment Banking

If you could go back and give yourself a message back when you started this MBA journey, what would it be?

The biggest mistake that I made was staying in the Coast Guard.  The opportunities for Academy Grads that go to Business school are incredible.  The leadership experience, the undergraduate education, and the ability to communicate, are all highly prized in the world of business.  I was in the military from the time I graduated high school until the day I showed up to business school.  If I had made the transition straight to a job, I would have most likely found myself working in a position that was nearly identical to what I had been doing in the military.  Not because I wanted to do the same work, but because I didn't know all of the different options.

The first year in business school blew my mind because it opened my eyes to the possibilities of post graduation.  Furthermore, by choosing a top tier general management focused business school, I was able to learn the baseline necessary for all forms of business.  Finance, strategy, marketing, ops, etc. are all useful in future positions, and being forced to take them all with your whole class, allows you to appreciate the types of positions and industries that are available.

Study for the GMATs. During my application process, I didn’t study for the GMATs.  I simply showed up and took them.  While I did well, a little hard work beforehand would have opened up every school in the country.  This is important because there is a direct correlation with the school you attend and the opportunities you have after graduation.  In 20 years it mostly likely won’t matter if you went to 1 or 20 (50 is a different story), but directly after graduation, it is huge.  This just means that you can be doing what you really want to do in 10 years rather than 20 years.

Branch: Coast Guard
MBA: Darden (University of Virginia)
Year 2013
Industry: Private Equity

What’s the biggest surprise you’ve had from your MBA experience so far?

I am most surprised by how awesome my classmates are. When I was applying to bschool, I was very concerned about being surrounded by a bunch of Type A go-getters who had the uncanny ability to take douchebaggery to a new level. I was a Marine enlisted grunt (0331 - guns up!) and was not interested in being surrounded by blue falcons and individuals. At Darden, I can honestly say that the stereotypical Type A MBA student is not here. I characterize Darden students as Type A-; all of the positive aspects of being Type A, but none to little of the arrogance and self-centeredness which you might expect.

I love how my classmates are team players and very supportive of not only me, but each other. It takes time to get spun up on the business lingo, concepts, and excel, and they have been there every step of the way. I thought I had a good idea of this when I visited Darden, but I continue to be amazed now that I am living it day to day. For example, there is no hesitation when I ask for help with a case from a peer. Not only do the notes or spreadsheets end up in my inbox, but then there's a generous offer to spend precious time to discuss it with me so that I understand. I did not expect such a level of commitment between students to one another when I came to school. I honestly thought it'd be much more similar to a dog-eat-dog world (as business is often characterized) than something which almost resembles a co-op.

Please understand that individual experiences may vary and that I am making generalizations as a result of my experiences. I think a lot of military guys feel a slight disconnect with civilian society, as I did, and an immersion into an MBA program can be daunting, especially since we all have pre-conceived notions of what MBA candidates are like. I'm relieved that I have found a place with such a strong sense of community to help bridge that gap and that my suspicions and expectations have been proven completely wrong.

Branch: USMC
MBA: Darden (University of Virginia)
Year: 2013
Industry: Retail

If you could go back and go through the MBA all over again, what would you do differently?

I would do two things differently if I were to repeat the MBA application process: reach out to other veterans at MBA programs and learn more about different private sector careers.

First, I wish I would have gotten more veteran perspectives going through the application process. I had two friends from ROTC that were enrolled in top MBA programs when I did the application process. They were truly critical to getting my resume translated and learning the basics about the application process. However, that was just two perspectives. Unless the veteran network at a school reached out to me, I did not know that I should reach out to them. The humility and the team-focused approach you learn in the military can get in the way of being successful in the private sector in instances like this. People, especially other veterans, want to help you navigate the application process. If you have specific questions about the school, then reach out!

Secondly, I wish I would have learned more specifically about what are MBA careers. I read the necessary blogs and books preparing myself for the MBA world, but they focus on the basics to make the information more digestible: consulting, banking, marketing. There are many cool MBA careers I did not learn about until I had accepted an internship offer during my first year at B-school. I think a better approach to learning about careers is to think about what work energizes you, and then look for careers that might have that type of work – rather than looking at a certain company or broad career function.

Branch: Army
MBA: Darden (University of Virginia)
Year: 2012
Industry: Logistics

I was just your average Soldier/Sailor/Air Man/Marine. Do I even have a shot? What types of veterans are a good fit for an MBA? For Darden?

Kathleen Grant
Assistant Director of Admissions
Darden School of Business

I think I speak on behalf of most admission committee members when I say none of you is “just average”.  You have had life experiences most people your ages have never had including “real world” leadership, international exposure and cultural awareness.  You have learned to deal with ambiguity, high stress and on the spot decision-making.  The strength of your character and determination has been tested in ways we cannot imagine.  You are a world-class volunteer and a person of compassion, tenacity and optimism tinged with wearied realism.  Do not ever sell these life skills short.

Visit schools and make sure that the school fits you!  If it does, then you will have an easier time selling yourself to us.  Research, research, research then put boots to the ground.  Talk to people, visit a class and reach out to student veterans.  Ask if their schools and classmates respect and value the skills that the veterans bring to the program.  Confirm that your needs will be met and that the environment rigorously challenges you and makes you stretch beyond your comfort zone.  And, finally, ask yourself if you want to spend the next two years (and a lot of money) in that community and culture.  Reach for the best school you can attend, but as our Dean cautions, “you must define “best” in your terms and not just settle for the opinion of an impersonal ranking.”  Once you are settled in and working on your application, do your best to define yourself; entice us to keep reading.  We really do want to know where life has taken you and what expectations you have moving forward.  Are we the best choice to help you meet your goals?

Finally, be realistic in your approach to applying.   Check out the student profiles for each school and consider your competitiveness.  The holistic nature of the application is important, but there are tangibles that must be considered.  It is admirable to aim high, but proceed with caution.

Was the MBA really worth it? Couldn’t you have gotten to where you are without MBA and been just fine, without all that debt?

Absolutely necessary for what I'm doing now. I couldn't have gotten into Bain without it. I wouldn't have developed a few of the close friends that have become huge parts of my career without it. That being said, in retrospect, the classes weren't all that helpful, though some of the relationships I developed with professors have been invaluable. As a consultant, I used a lot of business school skills and knowledge, but I didn't really love being a consultant. I feel like I could have built all the useful knowledge and skills in 1/10 the time. The hard part would have been figuring out where to focus your efforts and who to work with. There are definitely ways to DIY an MBA in 2012 that weren't possible in 2003. If you have the right mentors, and the right relationships, everything is a lot easier and I got my mentors and a lot of my friends at HBS.

Branch: USMC
MBA: HBS (Harvard)
Year: 2005
Industry: Technology

The GI Bill & Financial Aid for your MBA

David Moss

Assistant Director of Financial Aid

Darden School of Business

There is a lot of confusing stuff out there about the GI Bill and it all seems to say something different.  No more BS. What’s the truth? How much is the GI Bill going to cover my cost for getting my MBA?

Congress has changed the Post-9/11 GI Bill so many times that there’s a lot of different information floating around that may have been true once, but no longer is. The latest iteration of the Bill is actually very straightforward, but provides slightly different benefits to veterans attending private schools than it does for public schools.  If a veteran were to call two schools- one private and one public, he/she will get two very different answers about how much of the cost is covered- both of which would be correct for the respective school.

The Darden School, being attached to the University of Virginia, is considered a public school.  For veterans that qualify for 100% of benefits, the VA will pay the full cost of in-state tuition and fees directly to the University.  This goes for all of our programs- traditional MBA, MBA for Executives, and Global MBA for Executives.  The VA also pays directly to the veteran, a Monthly Allowance for Housing which is set at the Department of Defense’s Basic Allowance for Housing E-5 with dependents amount (http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/site/bahCalc.cfm), based on the zip code of where the school is located, regardless of where the veteran actually resides.  The VA will also pay the veteran an annual $1,000 books and supplies stipend.  All of these payments are prorated based on a veteran’s eligibility level.  For example, a veteran with 60% eligibility will have 60% of in-state tuition and fees paid, receive 60% of the Monthly Allowance for Housing, and a $600 books and supplies stipend. 

The only difference for private schools, but a significant one, is that the maximum amount of tuition and fees the VA will pay to a veteran who is 100% eligible for benefits is $17,500 per year.  In a nutshell, the Post-9/11 GI Bill goes much farther for veterans attending public schools.

What single resource was the most useful for you during your MBA application process?

Starting out, even figuring out which resources would be the best to use was a challenge that involved research. Initially, I thought there had to be some great book out there that would answer all my questions, and there were TONS of books but, ultimately, the single most useful resource I discovered and used (a lot) was the website and online forums at GMATClub.com.  It was a great place to ask questions about the GMAT and to find study guides, and it was also a great place to get in touch with current MBA students and ask them about their school and the MBA student lifestyle. I can honestly say with 100% certainty that I would not have ended up at Darden had it not been for the advice and guidance I received from other current MBA veterans that I reached out to through the forums.

A vital resource that many servicemembers lack is a mentor or supervisor who has an MBA and who has gone through the process. This puts us veterans at a disadvantage when it comes to perspective and understanding just how valuable our experience is or how competitive our applications are at top business schools. Being able to reach out online to vets who went through the application process and who are at top schools presented me with an opportunity to gain the perspective that I lacked.

Branch: Army
MBA: Darden (University of Virginia)
Year: 2013
Industry: Consulting

What’s the one thing you expected from your MBA that you didn’t actually get? What’s the one thing you did learn that surprised you in its value to your career?

In the military you learn to have a bias for action. You learn how to put out fires and drive forward to complete your goal. That is a good thing, but if you don't have an idea what the big picture is then you can lead your team down the wrong direction. I expected my MBA to teach me how to balance between a bias for action and strategy. What I saw during my MBA program is that people are more focused on the strategy and or for some reason are unwilling to take action. So I saw myself trying to push for action because I felt that someone had too. We can sit around and debate the big picture, but if that is all we do then we don't go anywhere. So I feel I still haven't learned how to keep that balance.

My life had always revolved around the military until I started B-school. At 4 pm, I was still going 100% and worked until the job got done. I also expected that with the people I worked with. Surprisingly what my MBA taught me was how to let go of work and focus on my life. I am never going to make the serious decisions I made in the military, so it is okay if people aren't completely dedicated to their job. Now I am able to shut my brain off at the end of the day and focus on my life.

Branch: Navy

MBA: Darden (University of Virginia)

Year: 2011

Current Industry: Consumer Electronics

Welcome to Military MBA Voices

Military MBA Voices is a blog dedicated to help military servicemen who are considering to pursue an MBA, in the process of the MBA application, or preparing to matriculate to an MBA program.

Military MBA Voices was created by a group of students from the Darden Business School at the University of Virginia, to help veterans clear through the clutter of information (and misinformation) about the MBA journey and provide perspective from other veterans who are either in school or have graduated with an MBA.  It will also have information from MBA administrators and faculty members to answer common questions veterans have about the MBA.

Military MBA Voices was created in partnership with Fidelis (www.fideliseducation.com), a company providing an End-to-End solution for the military-to-civilian career transition.

If you would like to ask a veteran MBA student, faculty, or MBA administration staff member a question, or just would like to send us a message, please send it to militarymbavoices@gmail.com.

Thank you for visiting  Military MBA Voices .